tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post7607462019422838201..comments2024-03-28T11:03:41.050-05:00Comments on Unlocked Wordhoard: A Dark Age for MedievalistsDr. Richard Scott Nokeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01348275071082514870noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-59322929715962249682008-05-28T23:06:00.000-05:002008-05-28T23:06:00.000-05:00Thanks for the response. Again, no bad feelings w...Thanks for the response. Again, no bad feelings were hidden in the question, I was just genuinely curious as to how you would respond to that particular prompt. I find your position cogent and interesting, even if, for whatever reason, I would want to think the Gilgamesh poet(s?)and Derrida and Dinshaw as somehow part of the same conversation across deep time. The idea of code-switching in a pedagogical context is particularly interesting.dan remeinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13011645541207076650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-52578669674771730822008-05-28T21:36:00.000-05:002008-05-28T21:36:00.000-05:00Dan,All my students are of a postmodern mindset, j...Dan,<BR/><BR/>All my students are of a postmodern mindset, just as all of my parents' generation (in my family, anyway) are of a modernist mindset. I have to negotiate these two worlds in some way.<BR/><BR/>Most postmodernism is just a decadent form of modernism (perhaps all, but I'm not sure of that). By understanding modernism through Eliot and applying Boethius to both, I can wander back and forth ("code switch," if you prefer) between the modern and postmodern without undue difficulty.<BR/><BR/>Derrida and Dinshaw? Why bother looking to either for answers, or even meaningful questions? The formulation (if not the phrase) isn't "taken first" from either. If you're looking for the problem of living outside your time, you can go all the way back to Utnapishtim's problem in Gilgamesh.<BR/><BR/>And yes, I'm aware that's a modernist answer to a PoMo question.Dr. Richard Scott Nokeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01348275071082514870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-84417332810911237142008-05-28T18:15:00.000-05:002008-05-28T18:15:00.000-05:00Allen's icky article aside, I do have to ask, Dr. ...Allen's icky article aside, I do have to ask, Dr. Nokes (and I mean this in the most non-mean-spirited way possible, and only in jest, but also as one of those blogosphere medievalists of that 'postmodernist' ilk, AND one who LIKES reading Eliot) if living now with an ethic from a mix of Eliot and Boethius would place you a little 'out of place in time'--a formulation taken first from Derrida, and then from Dinshaw?dan remeinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13011645541207076650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-34025774495311433712008-05-28T08:58:00.000-05:002008-05-28T08:58:00.000-05:00Ha! That would explain a lot.Ha! That would explain a lot.Karl Steelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03353370018006849747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-46344384783302676332008-05-28T06:43:00.000-05:002008-05-28T06:43:00.000-05:00Though I was told at the time it was because the s...Though I was told at the time it was because the scholar could not be there, I of course suspected foul play by the nefarious Gower.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps Charlotte Allen is secretly in Gower's employ?Dr. Richard Scott Nokeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01348275071082514870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-50920099263945926042008-05-27T20:22:00.000-05:002008-05-27T20:22:00.000-05:00The papir on the blog was nat presentid? Wherefor ...The papir on the blog was nat presentid? Wherefor nat? Hath this sum thing to do wyth Gower?<BR/><BR/>Le Vostre<BR/>GCEYYÜP HANhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08545687042079466887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-25431082979994657682008-05-25T21:17:00.000-05:002008-05-25T21:17:00.000-05:00Thanks for the suggestions, Karl!Thanks for the suggestions, Karl!Nathanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12666724974384466008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-521952093549863082008-05-25T19:47:00.000-05:002008-05-25T19:47:00.000-05:00Karl, Maybe you're right but it might be worth try...Karl, <BR/><BR/>Maybe you're right but it might be worth trying. Surely there's one of us able to write reasonably well? :-)Matthew Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11971159578332078338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-55984468836339295652008-05-25T18:59:00.000-05:002008-05-25T18:59:00.000-05:00Nathaniel, there are any number of introductions t...Nathaniel, there are any number of introductions to theory available. Of the several that I've read, I think Jonathan Culler's <I>Literary Theory: A Very Short Introduction</I> is probably the best (and not only because of its length). Also very good is Bennett and Royle's <I>An Introduction to Literature, Criticism, and Theory,</I> which I think might do for an intro to cultural studies. The <I>Levinas: A Guide for the Perplexed</I> might be a good way to get a handle on some of the ITM stuff. Right now, I'm reading David Held's <I>Introduction to Critical Theory</I>: good stuff.<BR/><BR/>==<BR/><BR/>Matthew: sometimes I think we won't be able to write for a popular publications unless we write precisely the kind of article Allen wrote.Karl Steelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03353370018006849747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-1934780380042849162008-05-25T17:47:00.000-05:002008-05-25T17:47:00.000-05:00So, here's a question: when will one of us start w...So, here's a question: when will one of us start writing about Kazoo (hence, medieval studies) for more popular publications?Matthew Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11971159578332078338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-24480883612593764392008-05-25T16:12:00.000-05:002008-05-25T16:12:00.000-05:00Yes and one more thing about Allen (who is indeed ...Yes and one more thing about Allen (who is indeed the same writer Karl points to): she is a plagiarist. Her Kalamazoo article's template is any one of those "MLA demonstrates that the serious study of literature has been ruined by theory" newspaper pieces that were published in the NYT, Boston Globe, WashPost, etc every time the MLA convention came through in the 1990s. They were likewise poorly researched and unsympathetically reported. Their writers thought it hilarious and condemnatory to find the panels with the oddest titles and to poke fun at any play with punctuation marks. These articles were also just as obsessed with the professorial sartorial.<BR/><BR/>So, add some more adjectives to those I listed above: derivative, old hat, unoriginal ...<BR/><BR/>My one fear -- and the reason I won't blog about the piece at ITM -- is that it will make the article seem more important than it actually is. My guess is that most people reading it will fail to be alarmed.Jeffrey Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17346504393740520542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-9363645198562797452008-05-25T15:13:00.000-05:002008-05-25T15:13:00.000-05:00Regular readers of the Wordhoard know that I share...<I>Regular readers of the Wordhoard know that I share her concerns about certain types of cultural studies, since they apply a cultural Marxist paradigm to a pre-capitalist world.</I><BR/><BR/>I have to take issue with this. I know you put "cultural" in there, but Marxist paradigms <I>are</I> what got the general recognition of the Middle Ages as a pre-capitalist world. (Admittedly, I'm an undergrad medievalist who thinks historical materialism, of a sophisticated, humble, evidence-based and non-deterministic sort is still the bees knees' as a method of historical analysis). Yet I can still read your blog, knowing you're a conservative evangelical Christian, and find it edifying :-)<BR/><BR/><BR/>As for cultural studies and Theory, I still need to be fully introduced to it, rather than picking it up as I go along. I love Terry Eagleton's accessible style and I liked what I read of his "Literary Theory: An Introduction" when I took it off the shelf, so I should probably finish it. Maybe something like "Theory and the Premodern Text" would help too, along with some of JJ Cohen's books. I read "In the Middle", but I cannot connect the signifiers to the signified and so a lot of posts elicit a FFS emotion in me.Nathanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12666724974384466008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-24388862307492299152008-05-25T14:35:00.000-05:002008-05-25T14:35:00.000-05:00I hope this conversation can put the kibosh on the...I hope this conversation can put the kibosh on the idea that we're in a "dark age" for medieval studies. A "dark age" compared to when? We can access the MGH, the MED, and other resources instantly and from home; the university-press catalogs are full of serious, decidedly un-trendy scholarship; and the current crop of grad students has (it seems to me) a much better sense of the weaknesses of the job market than many of us had a decade ago.<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, beyond college campuses, there's a Renaissance festival somewhere in North America 50 weekends of every year; the recent death of Gary Gygax got the full-page obit in <I>The Economist;</I> Oprah is hyping a book about a medieval cathedral; and a Narnia movie--the <I>second</I> such movie--is currently earning millions. <BR/><BR/>Scott is right: the larger culture's embrace of popular medievalism is a huge opportunity for academic medievalists to connect with the general public and emphasize widespread interest in the field to their administrators and colleagues. As Tom Lehrer once put it (in a considerably less wholesome context), "today's young, innocent faces will be tomorrow's clientele."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-52996724055008765752008-05-25T14:29:00.000-05:002008-05-25T14:29:00.000-05:00Except that she is wrong about the topic of your p...Except that she is wrong about the topic of your panel, Scott. It wasn't really about Medieval blogs -- it was about medievalists and why they blog!Another Damned Medievalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05231085915472400163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-56274656295499648142008-05-25T12:37:00.000-05:002008-05-25T12:37:00.000-05:00And....I know it's a waste of time to argue with y...And....I know it's a waste of time to argue with yet another of these "academics are weird and out of touch" articles (which have been common, since, what Symkyn the Miller sneered at theories of space and infinity in the Reeve's tale?], BUT...<BR/><BR/>In the midst of her sneering at the study of excrement (and perhaps we should pool our $ and send her a copy of <I>Everybody Poops</I>?) she mentions David Inglis's <I>A Sociological History of Excretory Experience.</I> Well, I've actually read the book, and her characterization of him as the "guru of waste studies" needs to be qualified by someone who, you know, has actually done some reading in the field. And if Inglis is <I>still</I> the guru of waste studies for medievalists, it's only because there's nothing better around right now. I can't resist the pun, but his chapter on the Middle Ages--limited as it is to England, informed as it is (perhaps only implicitly) by Elias, dotted as it is with sentences like this one--"Thus <I>even</I> at the height of the medieval period, dungheaps and other forms of detritus collection were sources of some concern, and rudimentary legislative attempts were carried out in the hope of dealing with them. Although excreta were an omnipresent sight in the streets of the town, and medieval people generally accepted their presence sanguinely, there were some attempts to ameliorate against the visible presence of these products" (109, my emphasis, because why "even"??)--is pretty shitty.<BR/><BR/>I think she would have got more mileage out of Valerie Allen's <I>On Farting,</I> but that would have required that she know a bit more.Karl Steelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03353370018006849747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-43829311783285033632008-05-25T12:17:00.000-05:002008-05-25T12:17:00.000-05:00Thanks for the commentary RSN. Not to put too fine...Thanks for the commentary RSN. <BR/><BR/>Not to put too fine a point on it, if this is the same Charlotte Allen whose work I've read elsewhere, she's utterly grotesque, and I wish whoever had spoken to her or responded to her email had been media savvy enough to give her, at least, the cold shoulder.<BR/><BR/>Some examples from just one (feminist) website: <A HREF="http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/05/01/shorter-charlotte-allen-meanie-liberals-made-me-learn-something/" REL="nofollow">here,</A> <A HREF="http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/02/shorter-charlotte-allen/" REL="nofollow">a comment</A> on her notorious "women suck" column in the Washington Post (which left the post's normally shameless editors scrambling for an apology), and then, a classic, a comment on her screed <A HREF="http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/07/01/but-cervical-cancer-is-the-best-punishment-we-can-think-of-for-those-seductive-pedophilia-victims/" REL="nofollow">against the HPV vaccine,</A> because, you know, cancer is better than sex.<BR/><BR/>So, even if I weren't a medievalist, I'd find her utterly abhorrent.Karl Steelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03353370018006849747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-84923817459886154432008-05-24T18:47:00.000-05:002008-05-24T18:47:00.000-05:00And another thing...the Congress is dry or else ca...And another thing...the Congress is dry or else cash bar? Squeeze me? Baking powder? Could she not find her way to the wine hours and free receptions galore?<BR/><BR/>And her big-city, coastal snobbery about K'zoo pisses this Midwesterner off.<BR/><BR/>And how weird is it that someone who's getting a PhD in medieval studies would be so anti-Kzoo? And it's not like *she's* at an Ivy League -- she's at Catholic U. Self-loathing much?<BR/><BR/>OK, I'll stop now.<BR/><BR/>Ha! My word verification is byobs!!!Dr. Viragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960384082670286328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-1075956308037399672008-05-24T18:43:00.000-05:002008-05-24T18:43:00.000-05:00What an elitist, mean spirited, intellectually laz...What an elitist, mean spirited, intellectually lazy, and dyspeptically reported article. <BR/><BR/>I think I saw this woman, hovering at the wine bar and scowling at the medievalists having engaging conversations and who wouldn't listen in awe to her lectures on Byzantium, each one a perfect pearl of erudition. She deserves to stew in her own sourness.Jeffrey Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17346504393740520542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-64785898104761815602008-05-24T18:33:00.000-05:002008-05-24T18:33:00.000-05:00Steve, thanks for making all the points I was goin...Steve, thanks for making all the points I was going to make and saving me the trouble! Gah, there's so much that's wrong with that article. And so much is based on perception and assumption and broad generalization.<BR/><BR/>And where does she get the impression that K'zoo if full of bad dressers? I spent the dance this year noticing all the young and hip folks. And imho *this* medievalist and all of her friends dress quite well!<BR/><BR/>And even if she could quantify "bad dressers at K'zoo" (starting with "bad"), how rhetorically cliched is it to mock academics for how they dress?<BR/><BR/>But what really got to me was the claim that the "important" people weren't there. First of all, it's just wrong -- even given her assumption that "important" means Ivy Leauge. And OMG, the snobbery! Especially in her paragraphs on those us lowly folks who teach in the trenches at anywhere but an Ivy League -- ack!Dr. Viragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960384082670286328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-2143404652016052052008-05-24T16:46:00.000-05:002008-05-24T16:46:00.000-05:00PS: The fact that there are a lot of new and ofte...PS: The fact that there are a lot of new and often half-baked ideas trotted out at Kalamazoo by younger scholars is a feature, not a bug. That's where you go to hear the new stuff, not to worship at the feet of established masters.Steve Muhlbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18136005762428407135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13713642.post-26408123544025189762008-05-24T16:11:00.000-05:002008-05-24T16:11:00.000-05:00Comments on reading the article:1. She dislikes m...Comments on reading the article:<BR/><BR/>1. She dislikes most of the things I like about Kalamazoo. The couple of times I went to the "classy" Medieval Academy I found it incredibly stuffy. Perhaps it's improved since, but I think the author has a not-very-hidden desire to become as stuffy as possible as soon as possible.<BR/><BR/>2. Since when has Kalamazoo not been full of literature papers? I've been told the early conferences were only possible because a lot of Shakespeare scholars were convinced to support it. I remember saying to a lady next to me in the cafeteria that I was glad that there was less Chaucer this year, 30 some years ago; she lamented that there was not enough.<BR/><BR/>3. She's dead wrong about undergraduates not being interested in the Middle Ages.<BR/><BR/>4. Where was all that bare flesh at the dance? More seriously, why all the contempt for people who aren't great dancers or don't have movie-star looks having fun at a dance? What a classy attitude!<BR/><BR/>5. I have to admit that I'm on her side when she talks about theory-heavy scholars and their complaints about attracting students. I heard them in the early 90s. You can't teach students or even get them into the classroom if you don't meet them part-way; and if the same stumbling blocks come up again and again, you might want to rethink your approach.Steve Muhlbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18136005762428407135noreply@blogger.com